Tired the Next Day

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Tired the Next Day

Post  Mark Anderson on Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:57 pm

Mr. Vizzutti-

What are your thoughts on being tired the next day after a long day of practice? Some people say it shouldn't happen ever but some days I feel the corners burning even on low easy stuff. Should I plow through or rest? How can I get the lips ready for the next day after a hard day? I read that Maurice Andre rubbed butter on his lips. Is that crazy? When is enough enough for a day? My problems aren't swelling from mouthpiece pressure, just tiredness in the corners. Sometimes I notice I don't feel right for 3 or more days and taking it easy leads to things working out well a few days later. Is that strange? I'm a young player and may not have a lot of 'chop' strength, if that matters.

Thank you,

Mark.

Mark Anderson

Posts : 5
Join date : 2012-12-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Chronically Tired Corners Raises a Few Questions

Post  Allen_Vizzutti on Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:55 pm

My basic beliefs based on my experience apropos to your question are as follows.
1) Warming up and practicing daily should develop muscles enough for adequate corner strength.
2) Lack of a small amount of "swelling" while seemingly good is wonderfully odd and the opposite of most players.
3) Burning corners should be a rarity and should not be chronic or long lasting. (Similar to doing sit-ups - if you pound out lots of lips slurs you may feel some corner burning which should dissipate when you move on to more normal playing perhaps less taxing music).
4) When your corners are burning it is time to rest.
5) Not feeling 'right' for 3 or 4 days is abnormal.

It is important that you understand that making a beautiful trumpet sound is not based on maximum corner strength. We just need enough corner strength to hold an embouchure for short periods with rests, a few minutes at a time - over long periods of practice and performance.

So what could be the cause of chronic burn or fatigue and the problem compounding over time?

I can only suggest possibilities.

1) it is possible, (and likely), your corner default setting is too firm. Tense any muscle in your body as much as possible and see how long you can hold it tight before it gets really uncomfortable. It won't be long. Think relaxed embouchure. You will not be able to make an embouchure that is too loose. Don't worry. It won't happen. And so what if you did? Experiment by playing a nice G in the staff using almost no corner firmness. You will discover a new sensation. Give the concept a try even though it may seem counterintuitive to standard trumpet pedagogy.

2) Assess the music you're practicing. Is it logical and well laid out? Did you warm up? Are you taking frequent short rests? Do you attempt too many high notes? Is your mouthpiece perhaps too big? Too big a mouthpiece can fry your corners because there is little resistance and you end up creating resistance with your chops. It is the resistance that causes the vibration i.e. sound.

3) When your corners burn and continue to burn stop playing. Come back to it later. Let yourself "heal" get relaxed and kind of create a new start.

4) Here's a good one. Are you practicing too much? I have known players who practiced 4, 5 or 6 hours a day and got worse and worse. They had a lot of drive but messed up fundamentals.

5) Concentrate on smooth and efficient, relentless and continual, strong but not brutal breath support and think less about your face.

And the butter thing...? Gross. Use a decent lip balm.

Let me know if any of this helps. Others will be interested too, I'm sure. Thanks, AV


avatar
Allen_Vizzutti
Admin

Posts : 35
Join date : 2012-10-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Tired the Next Day

Post  Mark Anderson on Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:34 pm

Ok thank you I'll try these things. I noticed that this evening things felt better so I'm hoping I'll be back to normal tomorrow. I think maybe I get some swelling but never enough where it hurts in the middle I guess. I honestly never really concentrate on corner strength when I'm playing (I saw your trumpet clinic videos where you said thinking too much about that makes one stiff), but sometimes I do think to myself- gotta get stronger lips!!! Upon reflection, I noticed that the stuff I did say the past two weeks was like 100 times (not a joke) more intense than what I had been doing before then, so maybe that's to blame (run 20 miles extra a day out of the blue for a week and I may be sore for a few days?).

I play a Blessing 3C.

I was wondering- I play pedal tones daily and sometimes some pitch bending- is the ability to play those exercises well (as well as being able to produce a resonant tone) enough to ensure that the corners aren't too tight?

I'll see how things are going tomorrow.

Thank you again, I value your advice!

Mark.

Mark Anderson

Posts : 5
Join date : 2012-12-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Tired the Next Day

Post  Mark Anderson on Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:42 pm

So...

Today I felt alright warming up, but still not like I did a week and a half ago (really good). I was playing some Clarke studies but I still felt strange. Past two weeks, I felt like I could blow against the lips and they would respond, and I could play loud easily as well as soft. Past few days, I feel like the lips don't want to be bothered, and trying to play loud (full) just makes the lips not respond; I'll move the air as I would to play louder but louder doesn't happen. Middle C feels like it takes a huge amount of energy and it feels like there is a lack of response in the lips.

Perhaps I should elaborate on what I did the last two weeks vs before then. Before then, 2 hours or so a day rarely playing above G on the staff, lots of below low C stuff and pedal tones. That was the routine for many months. I don't know why I thought it would be good to do that. Last two weeks, 2-3 hours, full volume, playing Clarke studies 1, 2 and 3 from bottom of the register up to middle c or d, lip slurs in that range, interval exercises, tonguing stuff, little tunes, improvising, pitch bending up to middle C (never bent pitches that high EVER) etc. Not very impressive range, but seriously I haven't played in that register in my practice for a long time. Saw improvements daily, felt great, there was a lot of burn in the corners after a 30 minute session but I was able to come back after a break and play fine. Until this past Sunday I think. Today, I still felt strange, and I realize that it isn't supposed to be hard to play a C in the middle of the staff. It wasn't two weeks ago. My only explanation is that I WAY overdid things, gave my face more of a workout than ever before, and now it needs a while to get back to normal?? Ugh. Should I just take a day or two or more off to let things rest or settle or reset themselves? I guess I'm fairly concerned at this point, but I'll see how things work out over the next few days.

Sorry for the rambling...

Thanks!

Mark.

Mark Anderson

Posts : 5
Join date : 2012-12-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Tired the Next Day

Post  bach180s37 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:25 pm

Please remember that this internet forum contains a wealth of information. But it is very difficult and darn near impossible to diagnose with out seeing/hearing you. It sounds like you are horsing your breath, from what you are describing. And what I mean by horsing your breath I mean there is tension in the breath. I too have the corner burning sensation when tension creeps in. When it does it should be a big red flag that your breath is tense. When we get tired we tend to get lazy and not take a good breath. Not taking a good breath and letting the air do the work we try to compensate by using our face.

What I do for myself in my own practice time. I start off by blowing the lead pipe. (concert eb on pitch) The leadpipe allows you to create a standing wave. Unlike "buzzing" the mouthpiece which right off the bat creates tension. (Disclaimer- buzzing is good for those who know what the tension is and how to avoid it.) As for those of us who need to learn good habits the pipe is the way to go.

Without hearing or seeing and just by what you described. Your problems are breath related and are not supported by a good breath.

Also your head is in the wrong place when your are thinking of anything other than that beautiful trumpet sound in your head. Hear it in your head and then match that beautiful sound. Yes it is that simple. You picture the sound and your body will do what it needs to make the beautiful sound.

Trumpet is all about using your ears and making beautiful music. You really have to hear and hear well to play well.
If you ever make a video of yourself playing post a link here so we can see it.

Best Wishes,
Joshua

P.S. Get with a proven teacher and take lessons.
avatar
bach180s37

Posts : 4
Join date : 2012-11-02
Age : 32
Location : Purcell, OK

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Tired the Next Day

Post  Mark Anderson on Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:04 pm

I have been meditating on your suggestion that maybe my default corner setting is too tight. I've been doing some different exercises and working on doing as little work as possible (maybe there's a better way to put that) in my face and in my body as well, and I've noticed promising changes (I think). Regardless I'm not feeling tired anymore.

Thanks!

Mark Anderson

Posts : 5
Join date : 2012-12-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Tired the Next Day

Post  bach180s37 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:38 am

That sounds great! Yeah learning to let the air do the work really takes the tension out of the face. When we get "tired" we slip into bad habits and not take a good full relaxed breath. Then our face tries to compensate. That simple.

Also, when you feel you start to get to that tired point and start "horsing" your breath. Remember that taking breaks is OK. Also another thing you might try is to rest as much as you play. What I do everyday when I practice is Sing/rest one, Play one. Really keeps me fresh and my mind in the music and allows me to really hear the music before I play it. (Once you see music and hear it in your head. Missed, cracking notes seem to just disappear.) Also pedal tones do wonders for keeping your chops and breath relaxed.
And one other trick to remind you what a good breath should feel like; is to take an empty 20oz. Coke bottle. Cut off the cap end. Put your mouth around it and take a breath. When you to that you feel immediately what a full relaxed breath should feel like. And it's light and portable so you can keep it in your case when you need a helpful reminder.

Also my apologies, I didn't mean to hijack Mr. Vizzuti's thread. I just saw someone having the same troubles I was having. And just wanted to pass along some advice that had helped me. My private teacher really is great at reminding me about taking a good breath and keeping my head in the sound and not worrying about the mechanics of it. I think it was Bud Herseth that said, "Analysis leads to paralysis". Really think about taking lessons they are worth the investment. And remember to keep your head in the music.

Good Luck,
Joshua
avatar
bach180s37

Posts : 4
Join date : 2012-11-02
Age : 32
Location : Purcell, OK

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Tired the Next Day

Post  Mark Anderson on Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:45 am

Not a problem at all I appreciate your advice! I'm looking to learn as much as possible.

Thanks!

Mark Anderson

Posts : 5
Join date : 2012-12-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Tired the Next Day

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum